INTERVIEW: Writings of Clarice Lispector inspire ‘Immense Joy’
Photo: Immense Joy is inspired by the work of Clarice Lispector. Photo courtesy of Danny Goldfield / Provided by Kamila Slawinski PR with permission.
The new theatrical piece Immense Joy, playing The Tank in New York City Sept. 8-18, combines the inspiration of Clarise Lispector, the Brazilian author, with the artistry of writer/director/performer Anna Kohler, a frequent presence in the New York theater scene. In the work, Kohler uses a wide array of theatrical tools, including images, sounds, text and expressive movements, to bring Lispector’s words to life, according to press notes.
Joining Kohler on this journey are performers Natalia de Campos, Justin Gordon, John Hagan and Fabio Tavares, plus associate director Caleb Hammond. Together, they create a tapestry where immense joy collides with deep sadness, all while multimedia messages are broadcast in the theater.
Kohler is known for her experimental theatrical forays over the past 40 years. Her credits include everything from being a member of the Wooster Group to directing plays performed in Austria, Germany and Brazil. Her intention with Immense Joy is to bring Lispector’s influences to a North American audience.
Recently Hollywood Soapbox exchanged emails with Kohler about the new show. Questions and answers have been slightly edited for style.
When did you first read the works of Clarice Lispector?
I first heard her name in 1998 when I was devising a performance for the SESCI theater festival and also guest teaching a master class in “The Wooster Group-style” camera acting in Sao Paulo, Brazil. I remember one of my students, Natalia de Campos, mentioned to me what like-minded thinkers Clarice Lispector and I were, in her opinion. I really wanted to read Lispector’s work, but there wasn’t anything in English or any other language available in Brazil, and I couldn’t read Portuguese.
When I came back to the States, I asked one of my mentors and often collaborators, the poet and playwright Fiona Templeton. She immediately pulled about 10 books from her bookshelf, all by Lispector, and gave them to me to read. I remember thinking: “I’ll never read all of those.” But after the first one, The Passion According to G.H., I was completely hooked and did indeed read all of them. Her unusual use of language and the visceral quality of her writing make it so that one really feels “in it,” and from then on, I really, really wanted to create a show about this woman and her writing. Then I understood what my student Natalia had meant by saying we were like-minded. I really “got” Clarice Lispector.
Fun fact: Natalia followed me back to the States and is now playing one of the main characters in the show.
Does it help to know the writer’s works before experiencing Immense Joy?
It is not a necessity because the writing is being introduced to the audience during the show. Being familiar with the work certainly might add another level to the experience, but no one needs to have read the stories that I was inspired by.
How long has the show been in development?
A long time. We started rehearsals three years ago, and it had been living in my head and heart long before that. We had an opening date for the show in 2020, just when the pandemic hit, at a theater called The Collapsible Hole. Of course, everything had to be canceled. We did an enormous amount of work on the show remotely throughout Covid lockdown — remote rehearsals, remote filming with green screen technology, the cast creating worlds in front of their iPhones at home. One of the video geniuses I love to work with, Josh Higgason, made it look like they were all in the same space. But I never wanted this show to be prerecorded or live streaming — it is just not the right show for that. You, as an audience, need to be “in it,” too. Then the show was picked up by The Tank but got canceled once more last January because of the new outbreak; we rescheduled for this current opening date. And here we are. I am very happy about the support of The Tank and its artistic director, Meghan Finn.
Would you call the work “experimental theater”? Do you embrace that term?
Yes, I embrace the term experimental, and this is an experimental play. There might be other words for the kind of work we do, such as “modern” or “post-modern,” “devised” or “deconstructive” or whatever — but basically, we all experiment with material and storytelling to find new ways of looking at the world we live in, which we find compelling and interesting and want to share with an audience. Seeing plays that do nothing but follow a prescribed narrative plot is of no interest to me; if I want to see that kind of storytelling I can watch TV.
What’s it like to work with this ensemble?
I cannot tell you how happy I am with this ensemble! I am surrounded on stage by four extremely dedicated, talented and different actors: Fabio Tavares, a seasoned dancer, solo performer, and former longtime member of the Elizabeth Streb Action Dance Company. The aforementioned Natalia DeCampos, performer and activist in Brazil and here in NYC, especially with The Living Theater, her own work, and with other companies. John Hagan whom I know so well because we have been on the stage together for 40 (!) years, in works by Stuart Sherman, Cindy Lubar, and, particularly, John Jesurun. And the young Justin Gordon, a teacher, actor, and hip-hop artist from Detroit who is simply able to do anything. The energy and “joy” in the room are so tangible! Each one has been essential in devising this project, has left a deep imprint on the characters and what is happening in this show, and most of the time I just swoon in gratitude that I have brought together this incredible group, and the same goes for the outstanding designers and crew, especially my right-hand man, the wonderful associate director Caleb Hammond.
Is “immense joy” still attainable in 2022?
Well, see above! I feel so blessed that I can do my own work and bring it to a New York audience. And once I am “in” the work, in the room with the people I love creating, there is indeed an immense joy. However, I also chose this title because both Clarice Lispector — in her writing — and I feel very cynical about what is going on in the world, so certainly this title is not straightforward.
I have a son, and I feel very worried about what our children’s life on this earth will be like. Will they be still able to simply feel joy, given everything that is going on, with the world, with our country, and on many other levels. Still, I want to say that for moments in time, it is still attainable and will be in the future. Poetic moments … moments connected to beauty, love and to art. Does that make sense?
By John Soltes / Publisher / John@HollywoodSoapbox.com
Immense Joy, written, directed and performed by Anna Kohler, will play Sept. 8-18 at The Tank in New York City. Click here for more information and tickets.
