INTERVIEW: At ‘(No) Refunds,’ one lucky audience member competes to win
There’s audience participation, and then there’s what’s happening at the new show (No) Refunds, continuing at Theaterlab through Saturday, Jan. 24. The game-style experience, written by Katy Murphy and directed by Kelsey Robins, is hosted by Tiffany Gold, who is billed as an old-school TV and model presenter. She selects one person from the crowd to compete in three games, and if the person wins all three contests, they walk away with that rare theatrical commodity: a refund.
Although the show is cloaked in comedy, Murphy is trying to explore serious issues about funding the arts and the sacrifices that performers have to make to follow their professional aspirations.
Recently Hollywood Soapbox exchanged emails with Murphy, who portrays the character of Tiffany Gold in the show. Questions and answers have been slightly edited for style.
When did you first have the idea for (No) Refunds?
For better or worse, many of my best ideas originate from a place of anger, which is ironic because (No) Refunds has grown into such a joyful and fun experience. That said, the first version of it was hastily expunged during the pandemic when I lost three jobs in one day and was confronted with the precarity of my career as a performer. It was initially intended to be a remote and far more ritualistic show that would force participants to reckon with what labor feels like as an artist, to feel the stakes of their own money on the line.
In this early version, Tiffany Gold was far more unhinged in her treatment of the Star Player and the audience, as I, the creator of the piece, was feeling spiteful and angry about a career and community I felt had disappeared overnight. That, coupled with an unspoken dread that perhaps the years I’d spent working the theatre industry as a student and professional were worth nothing at all, led to this really cathartic outpouring: How can an experience capture this sensation for someone who is a fan of the arts, but has never felt the risk of their livelihood depending on them?
As the pandemic wore on and things started to open up, early readers encouraged me to rework it as an in-person experience. When Kelsey Robins came on as the director, she re-injected this sense of delight and play into the character of Tiffany and the show as a whole, which I think is really salient today.
Ultimately, (No) Refunds was born from the question, “How much is artistic labor actually worth?” The best part about performing this show is that no two Star Players have ever reacted in quite the same way. I still don’t know the answer to that question. It’s fun to let the audience, and more specifically the Star Player, decide for themselves.
What do you think the piece says about the price of contemporary art and theater?
That it’s arbitrary.
How do we fix this issue of funding the arts and paying actors for their work?
I’d really love to see an upper-class consciousness return to the philosophy of altruistic capitalism. During the Gilded Age, America benefited massively from a billionaire class that invested in the arts. Today, the super-rich seem far more invested in destroying the planet than leaving something beautiful behind. I look to more democratically socialist countries in which far more taxpayer money goes toward the arts, and it’s no secret that America will lose its dominance over the global cultural cache if we are unable to keep up.
Maurizio Cattelan, the conceptual pop artist, has a great quote: Aart, by its nature, does not solve problems — if it did, it would be politics.”
I agree that artists cannot solve this issue; we need to see massive structural change at the government level first. And in the meantime, if you have the disposable income to spare, consider patronizing the artists you love more directly!
How is audience participation worked into the piece?
How isn’t it? It’s a live game show! Every night, one audience member is onstage with us the whole time, and the general admissions audience is also invited to dial up their involvement as desired. Because of this high-audience agency, no two shows are ever the same, which, thank God, because I get bored easily.
How would you describe the character of Tiffany Gold?
She’s an icon. She’s a legend. She’s a star!
In all seriousness, I’m a fan of Carl Jung’s shadow-self philosophy when it comes to creating characters. The idea that there are bits of ourselves we put into a bag, “the shadow,” and try to push down to be more palpable to the world. Tiffany is every clownish, overly dramatic, fabulous impulse I’ve ever had and shoved down to fit in. She can be abrupt and incisive when it comes to her interview style. She has an insane (unplaceable) southern accent. Even her body is a facsimile constructed of shapewear.
There’s a quote she says in her intro, “The hair, hips and vocal stylin’ may be fake, but I’m the real deal where it counts, baby.” Tiffany is the flesh suit designed to immediately contrast with the reality of the Star Player. She acts as a foil to them from the outset. This character is outlandish and crazy and over the top, so from the outset, our general admissions audience will see themselves as allied with the Star Player.
What’s it like working at Theaterlab?
I cannot rave about Andy [Lynn] and Orietta [Crispino] enough. They took a chance on this show as a part of the First Look series programming last year, before we’d booked Edinburgh Fringe, or anything beyond a one-time workshop at Brooklyn Comedy Collective. They were back in the audience during our limited engagement in September and have been total champions of this piece as well as my other work. It’s been great to work with them through every iteration of this show, and I’m looking forward to working with them again to present a new piece as a part of a festival they’re planning in late spring. Stay tuned for more on that front.
By John Soltes / Publisher / John@HollywoodSoapbox.com
(No) Refunds, written by and starring Katy Murphy, continues through Saturday, Jan. 24, at Theaterlab in New York City. Click here for more information and tickets.
